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The Fight Before Us: Wages
Minnesota conservatives want to pass a constitutional amendment that makes Minnesota a “right to work” state. It’s bad for Minnesota, bad for workers, and bad for business.
First, don’t be fooled by that old “right to work” trope. It’s a misleading title. From a worker’s perspective, it means fewer rather than more rights. While a triumph of Orwellian language manipulation where a statement means the opposite of its apparent meaning, “right to work” systematically reduces or eliminates workers rights to organize, collectively bargain, and tosses out prevailing wage payment mechanisms.
“Right to work” means a dive to the pay scale’s bottom. The long-term impact doesn’t make a state more economically competitive. Instead, it’s a huge cost-shift, making moderate and low income workers pay more while receiving lower wages as a state’s highest income earners receive the benefit.
The average worker in a right to work state makes about $5,333 a year less than workers in other states ($35,500 compared with $30,167). Weekly wages are $72 greater in free-bargaining states than in right to work states ($621 versus $549). Working families in states without right to work laws have higher wages and benefit from healthier tax bases that improve their quality of life.
“Right to work” compels government to take sides against workers. The proposed constitutional amendment will make that shift near-permanent. What should be a regular point of public policy engagement and discussion is being manipulated by conservative policy advocates that don’t have Minnesota’s best interests at heart.
Minnesota has enormously benefitted from strong worker protections. Throwing those protections aside, particularly in a constitutional amendment, surrenders Minnesota’s future economic prosperity. It’s a bad idea whose time should never come.
Posted in Economic Development | Related Topics: Minnesota Legislature Minimum Wage Union Working / Middle Class Issues
64 Comments
December 30, 2011 at 9:59 am
Right on Michael! There are too many of the redneck right who don’t even understand or know about the tax system they decry. If only they could become better informed.
December 30, 2011 at 8:53 am
The Job creators don’t need tax breaks to create jobs. They already have one, it is called “legitimate business expenses”. 100% of spending on employees including the employers share of FICA is deductible i.e. not counted as income or profit. The best part is that employee is hired to help the employer make even more taxable profit! Jen should really learn more about business economics to improve her bottom line.
December 29, 2011 at 8:34 pm
I stand corrected. Tucker is not Arne’s kid…thank God! I’m sure Arne is thankful for that. It still does not change the fact that Tucker is for off the right end of their flat world and at odds with the beliefs of the vast majority of the American public. I think Walker, perry, and Kasich now realize that.
December 29, 2011 at 8:22 pm
Yes he Arne’s son. He has discussed that on the networks before.
December 29, 2011 at 10:54 am
We can let Tucker speak for himself, here are his own words from a 2004 interview:
“I don’t know what you consider conservative,” Carlson said, “but I’m not much of a liberal, at least as the word is currently defined. For instance, I’m utterly opposed to abortion, which I think is horrible and cruel. I think affirmative action is wrong. I’d like to slow immigration pretty dramatically. I hate all nanny state regulations, such as seat belt laws and smoking bans.”
If there’s some objective journalist in there somewhere, I can’t see it.
After you read that,his pretense that tens of billions in tax breaks to the oil industry isn’t a subsidy would hardly come as a complete surprise?
If you “wiki” Mr. Carlson you’ll see a long list of associations, most frequently as a conservative commentator (Crossfire and Fox, for example) and with other Institutions that make no bones of pushing an agenda that his own words (as above) would fit.
Edward R. Murrow and Walter Cronkite he is not…
December 29, 2011 at 9:36 am
FYI, Tucker Carlson, the conservative TV talking head, is not former Governor Arne Carlson’s son. He has a son named Tucker, just not the one you’re referencing.
Thanks everybody for vigorous engagement and debate. It moves Minnesota forward.
December 29, 2011 at 9:12 am
Jen- Tucker Carlson (FOX news commentator)is an extreme right politico, who even his own father, Arne Carlson disagrees with. Arne Carlson was a common sense Republican Governor of Minnesota who was able to understand both sides. He voted for Obama, by the way.
Arne Carlson said the Republican party is far too extreme these days. Accordingly, he has become independent. Oh, by the way, another Republican to become independent—-Dave Durrenberger. He was a 2-term Senator in Minnesota.
Yes, Republicans are far too extreme and out of touch even with their own party, let alone the rest of the country. However, Jen, you can just go on hating, but try to become informed about the issues of the day.
December 29, 2011 at 9:06 am
Thanks KJC. I was going to reply, but saw you did. Great job. If only republicans learned to stop hating everything, including change, our country would be a better place.
December 28, 2011 at 9:32 pm
Fairleigh Dickinson University conducted a study about Fox News viewers in New Jersey.
They were surveyed about the uprisings in Egypt and Syria.
With education and partisanship accounted for, the study showed “people who watch Fox News are 18-points less likely to know that Egyptians overthrew their government” and 6-points less likely to know that Syrians have not yet overthrown their government” compared to Jerseyans who don’t watch news at all.
Overall numbers include 53% knew of Egypt and 48% knew of Syria.
Poli-Sci professor Dan Cassino explained the phenomenon:
Because of the controls for partisanship, we know these results are not just driven by Republicans or other groups being more likely to watch Fox News. Rather, the results show us that there is something about watching Fox News that leads people to do worse on these questions than those who don’t watch any news at all.
Reports also said that this is not the first study to conclude this way.
Last year, a University of Maryland study showed Fox News viewers were more likely to believe false information about politics.
December 28, 2011 at 8:43 pm
Jen: Just remember that you asked for it: here’s the link to the University of Maryland scientific study showing that Fox viewers are the poorest informed on current political matters.
<http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/dec10/Misinformation_Dec10_rpt.pdf>
Example of the kind of question they get wrong? “Under which President was the TARP bank bailout legislation passed?” Correct answer is “Bush.” Guess what Fox viewers answered? “Obama.” Wonder who left them with that deliberate mis-information? Fox.
I’ve actually posted the link to this before, which is why regular MN2020 list readers know about it, and maybe some consider it part of the existing knowledge base already.
You said you wanted to know… and now what you specifically asked for has been provided. What now? How about an appropriate adjustment to your position? That’s what thoughtful people do when they are in receipt of updated facts that don’t align with their current position. Or you can continue with the big verbal blather and bluster…
It’s your choice and your credibility.
December 28, 2011 at 8:00 pm
Oh Dan,you actually made me laugh out loud!!
“Universities show…..”
Show me who commissioned it and who was polled and what universities you are referencing. Come on, that is what you call evidence that conservatives are dumb? And I’m the one not to be trusted?
Tucker Carlson is a smart guy. Do you have any reasonable evidence to show he is untruthful? You DISAGREE with him so that makes him untrustworthy. Ah, I see. Same ‘ol, same ‘ol….
December 28, 2011 at 7:38 pm
Ironic how you dismiss anyone with a differing perspective than the liberal one. Liberal Elitism in action.
Hard to discuss when you will only see one side. I have 2 things to say: Solyndra & how’s our economy been since Obama has been in office. I voted for him. But it was the biggest mistake of my life. I was duped. I dismissed the people who saw through him and thought he believed what he said. His agenda to prevent us from energy independence alone should make you all open your eyes.
December 28, 2011 at 6:49 pm
One more thing, Jen. Read Greg Palast’s “The Vultures’ Picnic.” It’s fun to read if you don’t mind his periodic “adventures,” but there’s nothing entertaining about what he finds in his lengthy researches, interviews, documents (some purloined), and other hard evidence for what he presents.
It’s not pretty, but it’s accurate.
December 28, 2011 at 4:52 pm
I have give no credibility to a blog that gives as an assumption: that tax breaks shouldn’t be considered a subsidy. That sounds like a fact-free zone to me. Make no mistake, that is how they cover their tracks in saying the oil companies get no subsidy. (It’s enough to make you laugh and cry at the same time.)
it’s a pretense that the oil depletion allowances, etc that these companies deduct from their taxes aren’t a subsidy. Just like the mortgage interest deduction is not a subsidy for home ownership? I say? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.. it’s a duck. And their tens of billions of tax deductions… which they have used millions of lobbying dollars to keep in the tax code… is just that: a Huge Subsidy at general taxpayer expense.
A far more objective review comes from real news people. How about the Washington Post and Bloomberg? Hardly bastions of liberalism by any objective measure. The link to their story on “What Taxes Oil Companies Pay” is below. They don’t argue with a review that the oil companies pay about an effective 17% federal tax rate (starting from a 35% base rate.) It’s been cut in half by all those deductions! Why should they get a better effective rate than all the regular citizens like you and me?
Jen, why would you want to defend that? If any entity is going to be defined as a “taker,” based on their “I get mine, with power and money” behavior, it would be the oil industry.
<http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/how-much-do-oil-companies-really-pay-in-taxes/2011/05/11/AF7UNutG_story.html>
December 28, 2011 at 3:20 pm
I looked up your reference to DC Call, which not surprisingly turns out to be a website by Tucker Carlson and Neil Patel, who was an assistant to Dick Cheney. No surprise there, then, that they are dismissive of oil subsidies. Here are a couple more credible sources. The first from the NYTimes (although you might think it’s liberal, by and large it deals in facts), and the Christian Science Monitor which has a reputation for accurate clear information:
“‘Congress should consider cutting multi-billion dollar subsidies to oil companies,’ said John Boehner.
“Everybody wants to go after the oil companies and, frankly, they’ve got some part of this to blame,” the Ohio Republican told ABC News today.
Blame aside, what about the cold, hard cash—the billions of dollars in tax breaks and other subsidies big oil receives every year? President Obama has proposed doing away with many of them, which he says would save $45 billion over the next 10 years.
Finding and tallying federal energy subsidies, however, can be fiendishly difficult. Doug Koplow of the energy-consulting firm Earth Track in Cambridge, Mass., is considered one of the nation’s leading experts on the topic.
He estimates that the US spent between $49 billion and $100 billion on energy subsidies in 2007. . . .
Here is how the subsidies break down by category, adjusted for inflation, according to Koplow.
Oil and gas: $41 billion
(I’ll skip the other details. You can look it up.)
Christian Science Monitor article:
The targeted tax breaks for the top five oil companies – Exxon Mobil Corp., Royal Dutch Shell, BP, Chevron Corp., and Conoco Phillips – account for about $21 billion in taxpayer subsidies over 10 years, or $2 billion a year.
The reason for cutting these subsidies is to decrease the deficit.
The Ag industry, by the way, gets even bigger subsidies and most of that money goes not to small farmers but large industry farmers. Michelle Bachman gets over $200,000 a year from her family farm.
December 28, 2011 at 2:39 pm
Jen-you claim “liberals” are biased and only listen to “liberal” sources? Come one. There were 2 recently commissioned studies completed by universities that showed 1.) conservatives know less about the news and politics than someone who watches no news; 2.) conservatives aren’t interested in facts because they only accept things based on “faith,” which is a thinly disguised code word meaning they are too lazy to look up the facts.
Then, you reference your alleged resource with a wacky far right extremist blog. Attached is a clip from its “about” page:
About Us
Founded by Tucker Carlson, a 20-year veteran of print and broadcast media, and Neil Patel, former chief policy adviser to Vice President Cheney.
Carlson and Cheney represent the lunatic far right fringe of politics.
December 28, 2011 at 2:25 pm
Jen, I suggest you thoroughly research oil and gas subsidies. They get plenty of them, just especially for gas and oil companies:
Section 1329
Allows “geological and geophysical” costs associated with oil exploration to be written off faster than present law, costing taxpayers over $1.266 billion from 2007-2015
Section 1323
Allows owners of oil refineries to expense 50% of the costs of equipment used to increase the refinery’s capacity by at least 5%, costing taxpayers $842 million from 2006-11
Sections 1325-6
This tax break allows natural gas companies to save $1.035 billion by depreciating their property at a much faster rate.
Section 342
Allows oil companies drilling on public land to pay taxpayers in oil rather than in cash.
Sections 344-345
Waives royalty payments for drilling for some natural gas in the Gulf of Mexico.
Section 346
Waives royalty payments for drilling in offshore Alaska.
Sections 353-4
Waives royalty payments for gas hydrate extraction on the Outer Continental Shelf and public land in Alaska.
Section 383
Allows oil companies drilling in federal land off the coast of a particular state to pay the state 44 cents of every dollar it would have paid to the federal government for the privilege of drilling on federal land. The royalty-in-kind provisions in this section allow corporations drilling for oil on public land to forgo paying cash royalties to taxpayers.
Title IX, Subtitle J
This section would provide $1.5 billion in direct payments to oil and natural gas corporations to drill in deepwater wells.
Section 323
Provides an exemption for oil and gas companies from the Federal Water Pollution Control Act for their construction activities surrounding oil and gas drilling.
This is but a short list of the many subsidies. Jen, please become better informed.
December 28, 2011 at 2:21 pm
Your use of the word “takers” is right out of Grover Norquist’s Leave Us Alone Coalition. His gospel of selfishness, in turn, is right out of Ayn Rand. If you are poor, it’s your own fault. You should just get out of the way and let those who can make progress take over.
Grover’s philosophy came to him in a flash AT THE AGE OF TWELVE and has inspired Republicans ever since. If all Republicans, reasoned Grover, refused to raise taxes—ever—America would be the greatest country ever because of its small government.
Neither he nor most of the Republican party has moved on from that 7th-grade inspiration to consider the wisdom of Republicans like Dwight Eisenhower. I highly recommend his farewell speech and the documentary film, “Why We Fight.”
By the way: the folks urinating at Occupy sites are homeless street people directed to them for food by local police departments.
By the way #2: one of Grover’s goals was to make state legislatures meaner places.
December 28, 2011 at 1:19 pm
@ Ginny
You want to believe in the evil rich villain but the facts don’t lie. Read the article below. It’s a 2 parter.
The United States oil and natural gas industry does not receive taxpayer-subsidized payments.
Given the recent publicity surrounding this issue, this statement may come as a surprise, yet it is 100 percent true. Also true is that the industry pays more than $86 million to the government every single day and has an effective income tax rate of 41 percent. Why then have so many readily bought the notion that the taxpayers are supporting this highly profitable industry?
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/04/26/the-truth-about-americas-oil-gas-companies-part-ii/#ixzz1hr2xA8qC
December 28, 2011 at 1:12 pm
Oh, please. Way to twist my words. I’ve never done anything violent in my life. Compare Liberals and Conservatives and tell me who displays more hatred and violence. Just look at the OWS folks. Demanding someone give them stuff or they will riot, burn cars, smash windows, poop on police cars. No, we who want this nation to succeed will vote and use knowledge and information to spread common sense and the truth. That is our power.
For example, 29% of American support Obamacare and those are the “takers”, the people that want more back services than they pay for. The “makers” of the country know there is no way to pay for all of it. Ask yourself, are you a maker or a taker? We can’t have more takers than makers and that is where we’ve arrived. The takers don’t want us all to see the bottom line. They try to blame and say the evil rich people are haters.
The majority of Americans are smarter than that. We are a center-right nation, and information is too accessible to all to keep that charade going.
December 28, 2011 at 12:20 pm
The tactic is as old as the progresive/socialist movement in America. If they can’t logically argue against you, they will turn the attack against you personally as sure as the sun rises. Don’t play into their emotional game unless you can turn it against them. The long arm of the censor will fall on you if you step too far into their control of the emotional investment here. Freedom of speach is a one way street on this blog, sometimes making inteligent conversation challenging.
December 28, 2011 at 11:49 am
And to add to what Ginny says, I haven’t heard anyone of the righties here make any comments on the wage imbalance between the executives and the working people. From the time of FDR to the Reagan era we had strong unions and a progressive tax system. During that time under both Democratic and Republican administrations and largely Democratic congress, this country accomplished more than any other civilization in the history of the human race. We built the interstate system, concord terrible diseases, and put men on the moon, even invented the microprocessor that enables the right wing to spout their hatred. During that time a mother could stay home if she desired but the family would still have a comfortable life style on a single income. From the Reagan period on unions were attacked and dismantled, I can’t tell you how many times I heard the line: “We’re sorry, there’s no money for raises this year.” but then the CEO gets a 25% raise and a seven or more digit bonus. This past year executive compensation increased from 27% to 40%! And what comes out of the right, JOB CREATORS, BULL!!! Job creation comes from the bottom up, not the top down, if the warehouses are full because no one can afford to buy the junk, no jobs will be created, if on the other hand we have a strong middle class that can afford to buy what they need and want, the factories will be running full steam, and no tax cuts to the “job creators” will be necessary, period!
December 28, 2011 at 11:24 am
If everyone you call a socialist moved, we’d lose half our population.
I’m still curious about your response to the U.S. subsidies to the oil and gas industries, just for one example. Agriculture is another big recipient.
December 28, 2011 at 11:09 am
Jen:
Here are your words:
“you will need to go somewhere else because we won’t allow you to destroy…”
I didn’t write them, you did. You wanted to show you weren’t speaking out of anger? That statement was hardly a way to prove how calm and reasonable you were, was it?
As for being mere opinion, a significant percentage of my posts are supported by a wide variety of scholarly studies from a full range of sources, including conservative ones like the National Review. As such, they are far more than merely “my” opinion.
You, on other hand, rarely do that. You repeatedly make statements without supporting facts and information. That would be? The very definition of mere opinion…. making you? The proverbial pot-calling-the-kettle-black.
I see this as a serious policy discussion list, not some place to spout off like it was some loud radio talk show hoping that humans-behaving-badly will drive up the ratings. I expect to come with? Useful and topical information that represents the best the human mind has to offer, drawn from all over… to work towards solutions for the common good.
I fail to see that in what you’re writing. Sorry.
December 28, 2011 at 10:24 am
Let’s examine that a little KJC. My father worked in the mines under the union before going into WWII, by the time he retired in the late 1970’s he was making 20 times his starting wage. I was getting $20 + per hour in the mid 1970’s upon completing my electrical apprenticeship, Non union maintenance electricians were getting about $15 per hour. Now at the end of my illustrius career, I am lucky to pull over $20 per hour. It doesn’t make that look so out of place does it. Worse than that, we use to have the best medical plans on the range, now public employees are highest payed with the best benifiets. A direct result of their off balance takeover of the DFL. So who has been served by public employee unions other than public employees, and who has been harmed.
December 28, 2011 at 10:13 am
You site collapsing Europe as your example? Germany is hanging in there but they made some big cuts to get there. When the Euro collapses in the near future we very well may get sucked down with them. We already have plans to send bailout money when the time comes.
If you aspire to live in a Socialist nation then I really think you should move. Most Americans want our Republic for keeps. If you want to be taken care of by your Government you will need to go somewhere else because we won’t allow you to destroy what has made this nation what it is. Individual LIberty.
It’s not going to happen. Business can’t succeeded in your model. The only thing that flourishes there is the government.
December 28, 2011 at 10:03 am
Yes, you are misinformed.
Projecting and calling me angry and misinformed is the new liberal scheme to get folks to ignore the facts. It’s all the rage with the pundits. Speak lies as if they are true and call your opponent a liar. But the facts are all still there. Huge debt. Huge unemployment. An economy teetering on the edge. Policies to shut down any opportunities to be energy independent so that the pockets of the “Green Movement’ can be lined.
I actually get my news from many sources, by choice. It’s very clear that you only listen to MPR, read this site and most likely watch Rachel Maddow. This blog was started by very liberal local folks, Matt Entenza for one, and they call themselves non-partisan. That in and of itself is not being honest. I subscribe to 20/20 to be aware and see what the liberals in this state believe so I can be more informed. The reality is that not much of this on here is fact. It’s mostly emotion. It baffles me how the 3 or 4 of you who are on this blog every time I look (Ginny, KJC, Bernice), reinforce with each other your narrow one-sided ULTRA liberal point of view and thin it’s the norm.
You can call me names for speaking the truth, that’s fine with me. But the honest truth is our state and country are being run into the ground by people like you. People who want utopia for themselves on the backs of others. Blind to the cost and effort and risk to those they call greedy. Projection again. They should look at what they are demanding and think again about who is greedy.
December 28, 2011 at 8:47 am
Over and over (by Republicans) we are being told that “scarcity” is the only way. And the subject of the American Auto Industry has come up on this thread.
Did you know that auto workers that work at foreign car plants in the (non-union) south get paid under $15 an hour?
This doesn’t “jibe” with the rhetoric often heard about being “overpaid.”
That begs the question: just what is a good business model for all the stakeholders in a global economy?
Here’s a link to a comparison of the German and US automotive industries. That “scarcity” model would suggest that the Germans would be losing, since their wages are TWICE what is paid in the US.
Instead? They make Twice As Many Cars as we do. The “Tale of Two Systems”:
<http://www.remappingdebate.org/article/tale-two-systems?page=0,0>
Before reading this, be prepared to notice that a big difference is? That in Germany it is required by law that Labor Representatives be on the Boards of Companies. With that transparency and equality goes respect… and things get worked out. When those companies come here? They pay a lot less… why? Because they can. At least this is proof, on a global scale, that a “race to the bottom” in workers’ wages isn’t automatically necessary. Although the 1% love it, because it just means more $$$ in their pockets, at our expense.
In Germany they pay twice the wages and? Make twice as many cars as we do. Now that’s an example of success worth examining.
I say? We can do better, lots better. And we, average citizens, will have to stand up for something, and be unwilling to listen to the diversionary blaming of other regular Americans as “the problem.” That’s just more of what got us into this ugly mess.
Happy New Year!
December 27, 2011 at 10:11 pm
Jen: What is wrong with all of us people? We must have been so misinformed. Who knew that unions were breaking the back of the economy and the government?
We must be biased. After all, I haven’t seen any comments from you angry over the subsidies we give energy industries.
“Estimates of the value of U.S. federal subsidies to the domestic oil and gas industry alone (not coal) range from “only” $4 billion a year, to an amazing $41 billion annually. One recent comprehensive study of U.S. energy subsidies identified $72.5 billion in federal subsidies for fossil fuels between 2002-2008, or just over $10 billion annually.”
There’s more on this. You just have to do a little research instead of just parroting the tea party line. You are one angry woman.
December 27, 2011 at 8:00 pm
Ginny-actually, in Ontario, women get 1year of maternity leave. I believe that is with 80% pay.
December 27, 2011 at 6:27 pm
Jen, you should really do a little research before spouting off and making a fool of yourself. Generous health benefits? Really? At over $1000 a month, most teachers can’t afford the family plans that districts offer and are purchasing private care for their family members. Hindsight might actually want to take a closer look at the situation.
December 27, 2011 at 12:21 pm
Sorry Ginny, those are proffesional organizations much like Teachers unions and white collar public employee organizations. As for those who claim that no public money is going to public employee unions, perhaps you would like to explain how “Educate Minnesota” can outspend either political party and the Chamber of Commerce. It’s dange sure not Union dues as there are nowhere near enough of you.
December 27, 2011 at 12:11 pm
Very good points Ginny, then when the suggestion of equal treatment comes up here, the non-thinking segment of our population echos what the unions of their puppet-masters tell them and you hear SOCIALISM!! being screamed everywhere. Then you’ll see them marching with miss-spelled protest signs, guns on their hips, and tea bags hanging from their tricord hats, all the while repeating what they are told to think by the likes of Dick Army and the Koch brothers and the daily ravings of the drug addicted Rush Limbaugh.
When I was a child, people my age were being struck down with things like polio and being disfigured by smallpox, but I never got either. The reason was simple, my parents made sure I was given Dr. Salk’s vaccine and shots for smallpox as well as other illnesses. These vaccines did for public health what unions have done for the working person, no more are people struck down with polio and smallpox is extinct thanks to vaccines. And thanks to unions, we no longer have the sweat shops of the industrial revolution.
December 27, 2011 at 11:40 am
Absolutely, Michael. Many women, especially younger ones, do not understand how so many tough, courageous women before them have paved the way for their (relative) success. Many of them were union leaders, heroes, who risked much to help get women out of poverty.
But women still get .77 cents on the dollar compared to men. And women in the workplace have a tougher row to hoe if they have a family and children: maternity leave, child support, daycare, and all the rest (men get maternity leave too).
In Canada, women get 15 weeks of paid maternity leave; families get an allowance of $100 a week for each child under 6 to help balance work and home life. Canadians seem to understand “family values” more than Americans do. If we want strong families and healthy children and citizens, most families need a boost.
I don’t think this is all about money, but about control. Many men (conser-
vatives especially) do not want women competing for jobs and power. There is a real attack on women by republicans these days—trying to cut out all the help for women through closing Planned Parenthood (abortions are only a small percent of their work), making it more difficult to get contraceptives, not allowing girls under 18 to get Plan B pills without a prescriptions, and so on.
We have to stay as tough as women like Mother Jones, Jane Addams, and hundreds of others, who helped the union movement. (Many unnamed women who provided food for strikers, and so on).
December 26, 2011 at 12:15 pm
But in fact, corporations do form their own unions. U.S. Chamber of Commerce and all the state and locals chambers. American Enterprise Institute, Club for Growth, Heritage Institute, ALEC, dozens of others, most with huge amount of wealth behind them—much more than unions will ever have. Read the book, “Union Against Unions,” about the history of Minneapolis’ Corporate fight to keep unions out of that city completely for another look.
Why do you hate unions? You sound as though you are scraping along like most of the rest of us, so why would you hate the organizations whose main purpose is to help working people? Even if you don’t belong to a union, unions are helping to raise wages and working conditions for everyone; wages go up for union members; to compete other non-union shops have to raise their wages.
What makes you think you are contributing your hard-earned money to unions? Is it OK to subsidize the oil industry or the weapons industries for much larger amounts. That’s the REAL disgrace of this country and a core issue for Americans.
December 26, 2011 at 11:56 am
Let’s just start with equal pay for equal work. Without unions, women would still be paid less than lesser qualified men for the same jobs. Without unions highly educated skilled nurses and teachers would be paid less than maids because it was “woman’s work” and they “didn’t need to support families like men.” Without the legislation supported by unions and progressives in general you as a female probably wouldn’t be able to start a business in your own name because banks would be able to require a man’s signature. Forget owning property, unthinking females like you needed conservative males to take care of such complicated matters. Congressional and state legislative voting records are available. Look back and see how your free market idols voted for equal rights for women. Your tea party idols like the Koch brothers have 70% control over gasoline refining in Minnesota and probably own all the pipelines. You and Michele Bachmann should ask them to lower the prices.
As for liberal me, I will support what unions have done for mothers, sisters and daughters to earn what their energy and skills deserve and not what conservative males think women’s work is worth.
December 24, 2011 at 2:05 pm
Come on Jen. It’s obvious you hate unions…so OK, don’t join one. Today, unions comprise about 12% of the workforce. Hardly enough for a significant affect on inflation of wages for the entire workforce. Besides belonging to a union is a CONSTITUTIONALLY guaranteed right.
You speak of people having their hands out? What do you think corporate executives are doing? They have the best union around. They are just like other employees. It’s just that stock holders are foolish enough to fall for thge line the executives give them and the stock holders are foolish enough to pay them their astronomical salaries.
Certainly, they aren’t paying executives for performance. If they had, most executives would have taken huge cuts in pay for company performance. They even tube companies and get bonuses.
Jen, I think you are wworshipping the supreme entitlement class…the people who get astronomical paychecks and perks while cheating stock holders. Unions fight for what they get, executives schmooze, lie and cheat to get theirs.
December 23, 2011 at 9:05 pm
Jen reminds me of Ayn Rand, the darling writer of the Right 50 years ago. She railed against anything but sheer individualism .. I read all her books. She was especially against anything that was for the Common Good, as invariably that impinges on the ability of somebody to do “whatever” they want.
Then? She got old. Her “followers” didn’t support her in old age. She then turned to the very program she had often railed against: Social Security.
This is how this kind of empty diatribe always ends. The haters are against any program where somebody else gets a benefit that they might have to contribute to… but when they need it? It somehow gets made “OK” then.
I assert this: whenever ANYONE suggests that other regular Americans are “the problem” You Are Being “Played.” Lots of people took/tolerated that blame-the-victim rhetoric in Germany in the 30’s. How did that turn out?
The first order of business is? To reject and and all talk of other regular Americans being the fundamental problem. They don’t get enough to be the “problem.” Period. We’re all in this together, and demonizing other regular Americans will not bring a solutions. All I want for Christmas is? For Americans to realize and embrace the idea that we really are All in this Together. And therefore reject all attempts to break that common bond. Looking at our history, this country is unbeatable in our “all together” mode. That’s exactly what we need to get out the monumental mess that the politics of division created in our great country.
Happy Holidays!
December 23, 2011 at 3:55 pm
The corporate/right-wing campaign against unions has a pretty long history, but the modern movement started in the 1980s.
Google “anti-union movement in the US” to learn about its anti-worker and -union programs. Nowadays, the Koch Brothers and ALEC members help with the propaganda that paints union workers (especially public employees) as leeches who need to be done away with, while non-union workers are “free” from their dominance.
December 23, 2011 at 1:10 pm
It’s hard to understand why working-class people hate working-class organizations like unions. Unions have accomplished so much for us. Old bumper sticker reads something like this: enjoying a weekend? Thank a
union.
Keeping workplaces safe? Thank a union. Keeping workers from being blacklisted for any reason (my Dad, a trucker, was)? Thank a union—too late for my Dad.
Why are you whining about your lot when obviously you picked it? Did you not understand you had to pay your own medical insurance? And why wouldn’t you be lobbying as hard as you can for single-payer insurance which would give you thousands more in income every month?
December 23, 2011 at 11:20 am
Jen wrote: “I work for myself and have NEVER had paid sick leave, vacation, We buy our own insurance policy for our family of four($1500/month with a $7,000 deductible so basically we pay for everything, visits, prescriptions, etc.), AND I’m sitting at my desk working right now (except for this reply). You obviously have it pretty easy if you get all that.”
If paid sick leave and vacation bother you, you underestimate the importance of both. Labor unions negotiate sick leave, and most agreements now contain language that can require a medical excuse, or the first day is unpaid, etc. Without that protection, a perfectly good employee may become sick through no fault of their own, and be replaced. Vacation is important, because it allows people to “reset” their lives somewhat, or else they develop attitudes like yours.
“MY hard earned tax dollars subsidize all the union folks who earn more in wages & benefits than they generate.”
How do your taxes paid benefit unions? There are plenty of successful businesses that have labor agreements. If your statement were true, then there would be none, unless the owner can’t do math.
“Is that fair? Why should I subsidize benefit for them when I don’t earn enough to provide that for myself & my family? You are the selfish one. And God helps those who help themselves.”
So then God is helping union members because they’ve joined a union, and are experiencing a bit of job consistency. They are helping themselves, and those wages benefit ALL in their community.
December 23, 2011 at 10:57 am
No surprise that this article would have the anti-union conservatives tripping over themselves to blaspheme labor unions, while neglecting to recall all of the corporate welfare (“corporate entitlements”).
One of the first comments said that he once belonged to a union and “it didn’t do squat” for him. What sort of grandiose benevolence would you have the union bestow on you? That union very likely negotiated safe working conditions, structured pay scales to avoid nepotism and allow advancement for all, as well as the wage you earned. But if you think those pay scales were too high, you could have negotiated downward. That’s what most unions did to pitch in to help the recession.
Republican rhetoric nearly always claims that unions are “thugs”, and protect the lazy, underachievers. WRONG! Labor unions protect the GOOD WORKERS—- you know, the ones that show up for work, and help those corporate “leaders” take home their embarrassingly massive salary & bonuses.
GOP & Tea Party empty rhetoric is really getting old. They tout cuts only budget solutions, while praising the wealthy job creators. Merely giving tax breaks to the uber wealthy does not create jobs. Jobs are created when someone has a business plan that allows them to make money. George AWOL Bush cut taxes on the uber wealthy, and it got us…..THE worst economic downturn since the ‘30’s. No jobs, they took that extra money, and KEPT IT!
Republicans, please try to support your claims of job creation methods with some legitimate statistics. Otherwise, people might just begin to realize that you can’t, because your philosophy simply doesn’t work in normal society.
December 23, 2011 at 7:44 am
Thank you Jen for pointing out the lefts favorite socialist billionaire sorry Soroes and his goal to undermine our Republic. As for “Unions”, the last union I belonged to was the worthless “Steelworkers Union” which has done nothing but steel from it’s own members since I left it in 1978. Not one gain for it’s members in the last 40 years, and absolutely no input from it’s members allowed. If it takes right to work to break this communist organization, so be it. Having said that we do have unions that actually support their workers like the IBEW. Then there are the public employee unions and their obsession with power and their main goal of dominating us via the political process. I am about as sick and tired of dysfunctional self serving unions as I have ever been in my life, either fix them and get them back in their place and out of our face or eliminate them.
December 22, 2011 at 5:24 pm
Dick Army, the Koch Brothers and the other wealthy brokers and sponsors of the tea party would squash little people like you and me like a bug. They want to lower all of our wages and deregulate everything so they can loot and pollute. Remember your children have to breath the garbage they put into the air just like my kids. Fox “news” is owned by Australian Rupert Murdock who couldn’t legally own any radio or TV stations in American until the Republican Congress granted him special citizenship. Unlike may ancestors, poor Rupert was able to buy his citizenship and avoid waiting his turn. According to you it is OK for the rich guys to fund the right wing but not OK if a rich guy sides with labor and working folks. Phill Gram, a Republican Senator and his cronies like Newt Gingrich in the house deregulated the financial system and people like you voted in the Bush team to make sure there was no one watching the hen house.
the fraudulent housing bubble was created on Bush’s watch. The stock market was sliding into the ditch below 7000 which is almost half of what it is today. The Republican played chicken with the dept ceiling so they and their friends could short the stock market and make fortunes. The rich boys running the Tea Party wouldn’t let you use the servants bathroom. If the Republicans hadn’t fought Obama Cares for the Pharma and the Health Insurers you would be buying health care insurance at the same or better rates than big business. Spend some of your time thinking critically before accepting the right wing propaganda.
December 22, 2011 at 5:20 pm
Jen, now we can see why you’re so confused. Get all your information from foxbusiness? Think they’re “fair and balanced”?
Funny you mentioned the GM bailout. Any idea how many jobs were saved by that? Would you prefer that they be out on the street? Or would you be satisfied with just busting their unions so they’d have to work several jobs to earn a living like others you want to exploit. Did you know the bailout has been paid back? Maybe you should read more from your favorite source: http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2010/04/21/gm-pays-debt/
And who authorized that huge bank bailout you whined about? Does the name George W Bush ring a bell?
For every left leaning advocate you can name, there are dozens of corporate funded right wing think tanks. The big difference between them is that lefties don’t pretend to be journalists like your phony sources. And you rap us for being uninformed???? Wow!!!
December 22, 2011 at 5:18 pm
The GM bailout that has largely been paid back? How about GM’s CEO who makes about 500 times the wage of the average union worker at GM? 16 trillion dollar bank bailout? Well you provide links to Fox so that explains that. But for those of us in the reality based community, the $700 billion George Bush gave to the banks, well much of that again went to executive bonuses. School budgets, the hundred something is not a majority of the school districts, and even those would be OK if your Republican buddies would quit stealing from them. Property tax increased, that is a result of your Republican friends eliminating the homestead credit.
December 22, 2011 at 4:25 pm
Where should I start? Ever heard of General Motors? How about the 16 trillion dollar bailout the Federal Reserve handed to the too big to fail banks?
Nearly every school district in MN asking voters to pass another levy to cover the generous union health packages. Taxes going up, property values going down.
Just do a bit of searching, you’ll find more.
“A Democratic senator is introducing legislation for a bailout of troubled union pension funds. If passed, the bill could put another $165 billion in liabilities on the shoulders of American taxpayers.”
December 22, 2011 at 4:04 pm
Jen, it’s obvious you drank more kool aid than there was in all of Jonestown, and if your corporate puppet-masters told you the sky is red you would argue that they were right. But there is one thing, can you provide even one spec of proof that your poor hard earned tax dollars subsidize the union people?
December 22, 2011 at 4:01 pm
The country will crumble with this kind of one-sided blind ignorance. Ever heard of the billionaire George Soros? He had Gov. Dayton to his NY apartment for a fundraiser right before his election.He funds dozens of labor union networks and non-profit left wing activist groups. The Koch brothers have nothing on that scoundrel. Ever heard of MoveOn.org, The Open Society Institute, Center For American Progress, America Coming Together, America Votes, Media Fund, Thunder Road Group? All his babies.
“The Open Society Institute is not the only vehicle by which George Soros works to reshape America’s political landscape. Indeed, Soros was the prime mover in the creation of the so-called “Shadow Democratic Party,” or “Shadow Party,” in 2003. This term refers to a nationwide network of labor unions, non-profit activist groups, and think tanks whose agendas are ideologically to the left, and which are engaged in campaigning for the Democrats. This network’s activities include fundraising, get-out-the-vote drives, political advertising, opposition research, and media manipulation.”
You need to open your eyes and mind and look at what is really going on.
December 22, 2011 at 3:50 pm
Dear Paul, Let me guess, you must work for the state or government.
How am I exploiting anyone by saying healthy, capable people should all work for what they receive and not get a penny more from people like me? Please explain. I am tired of all of the whining by people who have others subsidize their lives just because they are alive and breathing. I am poor and work for every penny I have and would never feel right about taking from others, let alone insisting that I am paid a “livable wage” and that it comes from someone else who earned it with their hard work.
The Christmas presents for my kids include paying their health insurance this month and donating to charity. How about yours?
December 22, 2011 at 3:32 pm
Three comments in a row from readers who have swallowed whole the anti-worker/anti-union propaganda put forth by kabillionnaires like the Koch brothers and other energy industry magnates, the National Chamber of Commerce (on behalf of large corporations, not small businesses), and those politicians who belong to ALEC and help corporations write legislation that benefits executives and major shareholders instead of their customers and workers. Unless you three are part of the one percent, the kind of government that lets corporations run our economy hurts you and everyone else who’s not wealthy.
One thing you would really enjoy is a single-payer national health program. Instead of paying high premiums plus co-pays and deductibles, you and your family would be able to see a doctor whenever you need to for preventive and curative care, hospital stays, surgery, physical therapy, addiction therapy, mental health services, long term care and hospice, plus dental and eye care.
We would save as a nation $400 billion per year while making sure that every American received the same high standard of care. But the cries of those who say “But that’s socialism” are heard in Washington while those of the uninsured go unheard.
December 22, 2011 at 3:18 pm
Thank you Jen for illustrating so clearly to us the true meaning of greed. Your utter disgust of working class folks who fight for a fair chance to earn a living wage while simultaneously ignoring the excesses of those like you who happily exploit them is something that would even make Scrooge turn over in his grave.
December 22, 2011 at 2:29 pm
Got your hand out eh? Good luck to us all. Greed is your middle name.I guess I’ll work the weekend to pay my taxes so you can take a break.
December 22, 2011 at 2:27 pm
Yep, definitely sick of all that but why should I pay for some union members benefits when I can’t afford my own? You should only receive in wages and benefits a percentage of what you actually generate for your company or in most cases the government. I shouldn’t subsidize your pay with my tax dollars. Period.
It’s the greedy union members that believe that life should be special for them. That they should be coddled and make sure they have a safe and comfy life while us regular folks who earn every dollar we make by our hard work have to bail out your insurance benefit plans because they are bankrupt.No one is paying a dime toward my insurance but me. Your inflated wages are inflating the cost of insurance for the rest of us who buy it privately.
December 22, 2011 at 2:15 pm
I work for myself and have NEVER had paid sick leave, vacation, We buy our own insurance policy for our family of four($1500/month with a $7,000 deductible so basically we pay for everything, visits, prescriptions, etc.), AND I’m sitting at my desk working right now (except for this reply). You obviously have it pretty easy if you get all that.
MY hard earned tax dollars subsidize all the union folks who earn more in wages & benefits than they generate. Is that fair? Why should I subsidize benefit for them when I don’t earn enough to provide that for myself & my family? You are the selfish one. And God helps those who help themselves.
What is wrong with all of you? I can’t believe the greed. The biggest reward in life comes from providing for yourself and giving to others when you can. Not expecting others to pay for things you don’t actually earn.
December 22, 2011 at 12:14 pm
OK, here is my proposal, for those of you who are anti union and want MN to be a right to work state, you should not be benefiting from what unions won for us right? So here is what you should all do, Jen you can start, go to your employer tell him you no longer want paid vacation, paid sick leave, insurance, or a five day work week. Then be sure to tell him that you will work 16 hours per day and $5.00 per week is more than enough pay, this would be a start but you would still be benefiting from union won workplace rights like a safe workplace and OSHA laws. But if on the other hand you are unwilling to give up these union won benefits you now enjoy but continue to call for union busting legislation, then you are a hypocrite
December 22, 2011 at 11:58 am
Jen, I noticed you wished us a “Merry Christmas!” but would Jesus take such an unkind view?
December 22, 2011 at 10:55 am
Jen, are you also tired of all the banksters with their hands out for multi-million dollar bonuses when they helped crash the economy through risky failed investments? How about the executives who got similar bonuses for destroying jobs? How about politicians with their hands out to lobbyists who give them huge campaign contributions in exchange for gutting regulations that used to assure a clean and safe environment for all?
Do you really think that keeping working class wages low will help to improve the economy? Do you think executives will make enough purchases with their multi-million dollar bonuses to get the economy growing again instead of stashing them away in Swiss bank accounts?
How many more financial disasters do we have to suffer through before you acknowledge that trickle down economics doesn’t work for anyone but the top 1 percent?
Happy Holidays to all!
December 22, 2011 at 10:45 am
Right to work is a good way to say slavery
in a more polite language. Been there and done that. I came to Minnesota in 1940 from Texas, a right to work State and it still is just that. I worked in the one big Department Store there for $10 a week, 54 hour week, except in busy times you took only a 30 minute lunch break instead of the one hour you had legally. Union had approached us, but we were told if we met with them we wouldn’t have a job to come back to.
We were sent to Minnesota at that point.
I got a job at W T Grant’s worked a 42 hour job and made twice as much pay. That is why I moved back to Minnesota in 1944 when my husband was sent overseas during World WarII. I bought a home and I still live in that home. I value the benifits I had here.
December 22, 2011 at 9:49 am
It’s the economy stupid.
Seriously, I am so tired of all of the people with their hands out looking for money the don’t deserve. Inflating (guaranteeing) wages is a socialist joke. THe economy is broke because of all the union contracts that guarantee wages that taxes and revenue can’t support. Get a real job and earn what you receive.
Merry Christmas!
December 22, 2011 at 9:46 am
Good morning, John. Perhaps you or someone at MN2020 can also look at the refusal of the Right to discuss Mr. Obama’s appointments to a number of important positions in government agencies—including the National Labor Relations Board.
The Supreme Court issued a ruling (in 2010?) that all the Board’s decisions must be by majority vote. The Board currently has only two members, which cannot carry out any duties on behalf of workers because two people does not a quorum make.
Republican senators are opening their work day for a few minutes each day to show that they are still “in session,” which prevents the president from making recess appointments. William Gould of Stamford was a guest on Democracy Now a few days ago and warned that the agency may be rendered helpless and useless and could even be lost because of these actions from the Right. (See his December 17 article in the NY Times.)
December 22, 2011 at 9:11 am
Right to work is a formula for slavery….. Why not have the richest 1% pay their fair share of taxes?
The Repulsive Party has only one thing to offer the middle class—- the same rotten deal they’ve gotten since the election of Reagan—- stagnating and declining wages, overpriced health care, offshoring of jobs, permanent war, and gifts all around to the vicious oil, gas, coal companies, pharma, wall street, banks and, most of all, the military industrial complex.
The best thing for the middle class to do is vote the Repulsive Party at all levels out of office and drown it in the bathtub.
Dan Conner says:
January 8, 2012 at 6:34 pm
Jen, I so surprised at you. You blame President Obama for the economy, but it was GW Bush who put us here. Remember, unless we bail out the banks we’ll have something worse than the “great Depression.” That was GW Bush.
Presidnet Obama has been working, and with success, I might add, to get us out of this very deep ditch GW Bush put us in. And what’s your reaction? Vote in the very same party who put us into the ditch. You are a glutton for punishment.
Well, if you want to indulge in self-flagellation, you can leave me out of it. Obama is trying to get us out of our fix and the Republicans are fighting it all the way. You see they put us there and they value party politics well ahead of our country.