Don’t Drink the Tea; Taxes Benefit Everyone
April 15th, 2009 at 10:45 am By Chris Shields
Every April 15th right-wing activists who enjoy clean drinking water, snow removal, roads, police & fire protection, the National Guard, college, schools for their children, state parks, and countless other amenities, bemoan the fact they actually have to pay for them.
Now that more people are rejecting their argument, the tax protesters are throwing astroturf-style “tea parties” to publicize their failed policy ideas.
Our tax investments are an expression of public priorities. We build schools for our children to learn and succeed; roads and rail to facilitate commerce; flood walls to keep cities dry. We’re kept safe by the police, fire, and health inspectors we pay for.
None of these cornerstones would be possible if Minnesota were to adopt the sort of “me first” greed advocated by these conservative extremists. These are the same sort of people who brought you the gilded age and the great depression. Don’t buy into their bluster. Taxes benefit everyone. Let’s say thanks!
P.S. Tea bags are exempt from Minnesota sales tax. (h/t David Brauer)
UPDATE: Check out this great video on taxes from our friends at Alliance for a Better Minnesota.
LikeTags: investment, Taxes
here they are:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thisainthell/3337166693/in/photostream/
It really shows how fringe a lot of these ant-government extremists really are.
Your income taxes only pay for the maintenance on the national debt.
Roads are paid for with taxes on gas. Water is paid for directly to the municipality providing it. Schools are supported by property taxes. Colleges are supported by State taxes. State parks are paid for with State taxes.
These people are protesting Federal income taxes….it appears to me that all the examples you give are supported via other taxes or methods…
Actually, 39.1% of the state’s general fund (income & sales tax) dollars to to K-12 education, 8.9% to higher education. Sorry to break your heart, but income taxes do pay for a lot. Not to mention 9.7% of the state budget goes to Local Government Aid/Property tax buydowns.
http://www.mmb.state.mn.us/citizen-budget/745-bud-rel-doc-fore/49308-piechart-general
mrJ0hnson is correct, don’t be angry because you are ignorant of these protestors issues, be angry because the issues they are protesting are real.
[...] by interg12 [link] [23 [...]
Seriously, what’s the deal? I don’t get it. I need to drive on ROADS to got SCHOOL. I know that i gotta pay taxes. why protest it?
@save1r, The “real” issues that people are protesting are poorly and incorrectly understood by the all the people who are protesting, that i can guarantee.
Sorry, your assumption is wrong. The taxes that pay for your roads, schools, police, fire, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum, shouldn’t be paid for with federal dollars. I’m a big fan of the Constitution and Declaration of Independence which define the role Federal Government SHOULD play in our lives… nothing of it has to do with who picks up your trash. That’s taken care of at the local level, state level at highest.
So where do YOU think the trillions of dollars you and your children and your grandchildren are now going to owe is going? Not to fix potholes, I guarantee it!
I believe it’s you that misunderstands the situation and the whole intent of the Tea Party. It was never about a particular president or party; it IS about quashing the irresponsible, reckless acts of spending by those we elected.
Pietro,
So what you’re saying is, “Spending is bad now that progressive leaders are in office.” Where have you guys been for the last eight years while conservatives turned a surplus into a deficit?
Activists who enjoy:
clean drinking water (provided by state and municipal taxe),
snow removal (municipal taxes),
roads (didn’t you guys have a bridge fail up there recently?),
police (protection????)
fire protection(municipal funding) ,
the National Guard (Hasn’t the federal government hijacked the National Guard to be used in Iraq?),
college (Paid for it myself, thank you very much),
schools for their children (They’re doing a great job!),
state parks (Again, state taxes),
and countless other amenities (uhhhh?),
bemoan the fact they actually have to pay for them.
I don’t bemoan the fact that I have to pay for something good and worthwhile, I do bemoan the current mechanism for collecting taxes. I also bemoan the fact that our Federal government taxing without representing the wishes of the American populous. Witness the fact that the majority of Americans don’t support the war, yet our government is appropriating more tax dollars to the war, and expanding it to Pakistan. Witness the fact that more than 70% of Americans didn’t support the first bailout, yet it happened.
I can’t (in good faith) give my money to an entity that spends my money in a way.
Blotto,
Have you seen who our Governor is? He has cut state aid to local governments sending regressive local property taxes through the roof. He vetoed a gas tax increase even after the bridge came down (overridden by the Legislature).
If you went to a college, it got government money (private colleges get grants). We’re a state think tank and we’re specifically talking about the locals protesting at the state capitol. Taxes are an expression of our community’s priorities by the policymakers we elect.
Most of the things you cite are paid for with local and state taxes, not federal taxes. The fact is, the US Government takes in over 2 trillion a year in taxes revenue, larger than the GDP of most nations on earth. There is no excuse that we take in all that money and manage it so badly we’re running huge deficits and can’t provide better services.
Both Republicans and Democrats are at fault. Neither could have created this mess without the other. The Iraq war was approved and financed by a lot of Democrat votes. Don’t fool yourself in thinking one party is the good guys.
These tax protests are by people of all parties. It’s about responsibility. If McCain had been elected they would still be doing this.
Actually we’re just upset at the government wasting probably 2/3 of what they take in. We survived 100 years without a federal income tax, and once the government gets it’s hands on something it never gives it back.
Case in point. Obama decried the abuses of power by Bush, and now that he’s president he’s keeping those powers. Don’t expect the next Republican president to rescind them either. There’s no such thing as a temporary tax, and the government never has to make do without. They never have to tighten their belt. They never have to keep good books, or account for where they spent the money. Look at all the missing billions in Iraq and elsewhere.
They demonstrate time and time again that they are not capable of using our money responsible, why should they be given more? It’s OUR money, not the governments, despite what they think. If taxes are reduced, you are getting YOUR money back, not a gift from the government despite what they believe.
You are double and triple taxed on everything your entire life and then after you die you’re taxed again.
Enough
So does that mean when we get “OUR” money “back”, we’ll all come together and pay for public needs? Do you really have that sort of blind faith in unchecked markets?
I’m not saying taxes aren’t needed or even a bad thing. What I’m saying is that you have government that consistently abandons the needs of the people by taking care of a selected few powerful lobbies. Our needs are secondary to that.
Look at it this way. I’m your kid. You give me a 10$ allowance. I need a 7$ a week for legitimate needs. I decide to spend 8$ of my money on buying a pizza for my friends.. (I know cheap pizza right?) I then come back to you and claim I can’t possibly live on 10$ a week I actually need 15$.
We’re all told we have to cut back, we’re all told we need to live within our means, and many of us do, but the government never has to cut back. They government never has to make do with what it has. The government never has to tighten it’s belt. They just take more from us and continue to be irresponsible or down right criminal with significant amounts of money.
Give me honest and open government. Make the information available as to what my taxes are truly paying for, and make those things legitimate needs, and I will have no problems with paying my taxes.
It’s easy for these folks to blame the federal government, because it’s not immediately apparent what the federal government does for all of us. A lot of the things that are assumed to be funded on a state or local basis (e.g. roads) are actually mostly covered through grants from the federal government.
Not to mention that it’s the blue states that largely subsidize the red states. The bluest of the blue (New York, California, Massachusetts, Illinois and… wait for it… Minnesota!) are in the top 10 that send more dollars away than come back to them on a year to year basis. And the “anti-gub’mint” states, where people are presumed to be the most self-reliant (both Dakotas, all of the deep South, all Western Frontier red states, and… wait for it… Alaska!) suck back more than they give. http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html
This apart from the fact that those of us on the left have been railing against the massive and pointless money dump that is the Iraq War, and the fact that the Tea analogy is horribly misplaced. But those are rants for another time.
“Seriously, what’s the deal? I don’t get it. I need to drive on ROADS to got SCHOOL. I know that i gotta pay taxes. why protest it?”
And what about the the 2.2 trillion loaned out? Would you like to know where that went? Go ahead and ask Ben Bernake.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/americasRegulatoryNes/idUKN0349765020090303?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0
In early march he was asked just that and refused to answer it. Who did he refuse to answer to? One of our duly elected “representatives”. Do you think none of your taxes are paying for that 2.2T? Don’t you have a right to know where that goes?
What about the economic stimulus package that was passed. Did you know not a single legislator read it prior to passing it?
Theres a lot of very uneducated people here. First, there is no law requiring an individual to pay a federal income tax. The 16th ammendment was never ratified and even if it were, the supreme court already ruled that it gave the govt no new taxing power. So they never had it and they dont have it now.
Second, federal taxes ONLY pay the interest on the national debt to the federal reserve, a private bank that that is only a counterfeiting organization. The evil bankers are the ones who have destroyed our country and when they do their next false flag on 10-10-09, the Russians with the SCO will destroy us. This is the stroy in the Bible. It is the main topic of over half of that book.
This claim is often made by people who avoid paying federal income taxes and those people are all in jail. Ironically you are probably legally correct, but the government is choosing to ignore the law because it doesn’t suit them.
They could just write it into legislation and pass it if they haven’t already done so.
Taxes are paying for way more than roads, schools, and fire and police protection. Taxes also fund wars. They are frequently funneled to already wealthy powerful folks (big Banking).
Furthermore, Federal Tax revenue can barely keep up with the INTEREST on our national DEBT.
Every dollar taken, by force, from the government is spent on a special interest. Every dollar would be better spent by private citizens and businesses.
Please read “Economics in One Lesson” tonight.
I don’t want to get into the argument about whether or not these protests are a good or bad idea, I just wanted to point out that the broad labeling of these recent protesters as “right-wing activists” is a generalization that is both untrue and unfair. What group of right-wing activists would deny Michael Steele a voice at one such rally? This current group of protesters did just that at their Chicago protest.
To assume that Democrats can’t be against increased taxes is as ignorant as assuming that Republicans can’t be pro-choice. Please do more research before publishing an article that smacks of the “good guys vs. bad guys” air that this country neither needs nor deserves.
See this Wall Street Journal article on the Tea Parties by Glenn Harlan Reynolds to see what actual opinion journalism should look like: http://is.gd/suqx
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5927/wallstatsdatlarge.jpg
Thanks for the great discussion. While we don’t agree with some of you, we at MN2020 appreciate everyone checking out the blog.
Hey DUDE-
1) The federal courts have ruled time and time again that the 16th amendment is VALID. You’ll say “oh, well the federal courts are in on it. it’s a cabal.” Well the fed.cts have ruled against the hand that feeds them before & they have no incentive to do otherwise (you’re the conlaw scholar, so you know the part about not lowering judge’s salaries, right?), so that argument’s a little weak.
2) saying the federal reserve is a counterfeiting operation doesn’t make you sound like a complete wacko at all.
3) I must have missed the part of the bible that had Russia v. USA. It sounds like a Rocky movie and is a lot better than the King James version I read.
To everyone else: lets just get rid of federal taxes. I’m sure those pirates won’t keep messing with us when we don’t have a military anymore, and who needs highways anyway? I like taking state roads cross-country. And your grandmother who lost all of her money to enron? well she can freeze to death b/c there’s no medicaid and federal housing subsidies. Oh, but the execs at enron who stole all of her money? They aren’t in jail, b/c there’s no money to pay the federal prosecutors.
You can poke holes in the schools, fire dept, etc. state taxes argument you want, but there is a substantial amount of support the fed gov’t gives you that you don’t even realize. Stop complaining. Your bud Joe the Plumber prob doesnt pay that much in taxes anyways, and you prob don’t either.
Your initial argument is pretty poor. There is a difference between bemoaning all the crap tax money IS used for, and not wanting to pay for services that really do benefit us all. Left wing folks should be PARTICULARLY aware of this difference due to the war that’s been sucking up their money for years now.
What about the economic stimulus package that was passed. Did you know not a single legislator read it prior to passing it?
I mentioned that already. There have been several attempts at “read the bill” laws, which would require legislators to read and affirm that they have read what they are voting on. It’s always voted down. Why? Because then the lobbies couldn’t insert all of their special projects in there. Legislators do this all the time. They will put in earmarks totally unrelated to a larger bill because they know the bill will pass and their portion will ride along with it.
2 things that need to happen is that they need to be required to read them which would make them much shorter, and second (this has also been proposed and failed) all amendments to the bill must be related to the bill itself. In other words you can’t take on a gun education bill to a NEA grant, or something like that. Wooden arrowheads anyone?